New Delhi Times - Gaurav Bhatnagar reporting from New Delhi, India

Good Post Gaurav,
i can still remeber what a Madness it was ,when Mandal Commision Recomendation were approved . i was in school at that time . i read about Rajiv Goswami's desprate attempt to prevent it. In Process he became a Youth icon and later won DUSU elections .

reading your post i wonder where he is now and how he is reacting to this news . Fighting for a lost cause .
i guess it can trigger fressh wave ofsuch protest again ,

we have learned from the history that we have learned nothing from the history :-)

Today ,After 12 year down the line with a job and my plans for life all charted up . i admit i can't connect to this cause like the way i used to in past .
still i guess it will be different this time

Good post buddy. Myself being just 22, i do remember those days and the shock my parents would display going over the morning newspaper each day. I just hope this kinda thing does not happen again...very sad.

I think Rajiv Goswami died couple of years ago.

have you seen the TV channels and the print media 100% dominated by Brahmins.No space for others!!
Is it not the upper caste quota system???
Do Think...

When we point fingers on others we should remember that three fingers are pointing towards you.

Dear Gaurav,
Please go through the link and you will find the big game of media:
http://www.dalitstan.org/books/awake/awake2.html

What "merit" are we talking of anyway ? Scores in entrance exams at age of 17?

Take the claim of "merit based" entrance to all IIMs and dozens of other institutes.

The CAT exam is based on the SAT exam in the USA . It has been proved beyond doubt that the SAT test is culturally biased . Blacks and hispanics do poorly at it year after year .

If a student who is eligible for admission to IIM on the basis of his CAT score, were to take the same CAT exam in which he/she cleared in a language that he/she did not understand then he/she would be at a disadvantage compared to someone who was schooled in that language . Not knowing that language does not mean you lack the capacity to clear that exam.

Approximately 25 % of CAT test is about English! Another 25 % is about English Comprehension!!!! There you are !!!! About 50 % so called aptitude test is a hoax for someone who is from a non-english speaking background .

This is how the CAT like the SAT is discriminatory .

See the full form of SAT …Scholastic Aptitude Test . The problem is aptitude testing is not so simple . There is no test on earth which can reliably tests aptitude .

Aptitude tests such as the SAT have a historical tie to the concept of innate mental abilities and the belief that such abilities can be defined and meaningfully measured. Neither notion has been supported by modern research. Few scientists who have considered these matters seriously would argue that aptitude tests such as the SAT provide a true measure of intellectual abilities.

It was found that people could be coached to better their scores at SAT . The name SAT …Scholastic Aptitude Test could not be correct . So under such valid criticism the name was changed to Scholastic Assessment Test, since a test that can be coached clearly did not measure inherent "scholastic aptitude", but was influenced largely by what the test subject had learned in school. Even the College Board which conducts the SAT has beaten a hasty retreat.This was a major theoretical retreat by the College Board conducting SAT, which had previously maintained that the test measured inherent aptitude and was free of bias.

About ten years back , however, even the redundancy of the term assessment test was recognized and the name was changed to the neutral, and non-descriptive, SAT. At the time, the College Board announced, "Please note that SAT is not an initialism. It does not stand for anything."

The framers of these SAT tests assumed that intelligence was a unitary inherited attribute, that it was not subject to change over a lifetime, and that it could be measured and individuals could be ranked and assigned their place in society accordingly. The SAT evolved from these questionable assumptions about human talent and potential.

More and more people are questioning the validity of SAT . In the past MENSA used to accept high SAT score individuals . For the past decade it has stopped accepting SAT scores .

The whole exercise of deciding merit based on CAT scores discriminates against those from lower socio-economic status.

Though many non-IIM institutes have started accepting CAT scores, the application fee of these institutes is still inexplicably high.

The CAT is primarily an exam of Math and English. Logical and Analytical Reasoning is nearly absent (except for some verbal reasoning which again depends on knowing English well!!!!).

CAT is a clever way to keep those from lower socio-economic strata away Institutes funded with tax payers money .

So claims of “Merit” based on CAT scores is hollow and discriminatory against those of lower socio-economic strata.

Dhirubhai Ambani had a poor command over English . He would not have made it through CAT. So what "merit" are we talking of?

The poster Shylock is spamming the web with the anti-merit post. I have posted a rebuttal. on my blog. Unfortunately, the pro-reservation blogs are removing my comments from their blogs.

Well, the choice could be given for the students to take the CAT in a language other than English but unfortunately, the college lectures, exams, class discussions and even the jobs following the IIM education would be in only one language. So, maybe we would be putting the same people at a disadvantage rather than helping them. I don't see how this helps anyone including the people and companies unless you want to change the entire corporate layout of India to suit the 'reserved' class.

Also maybe we should not compare the CAT and SAT. They might be rethinking the SATs but then also they don't reserve seats for a particular class of people. As for the the SAT being racially biased, I have given mock SATs in the past and don't see how they are designed to help any particular race. Language is certainly not the issue here...

I for one would be extremely irritated if after working hard to secure a good job, I cannot as there are not enough jobs for people who don't fall into the 'reserved' category. Instead I see someone (not qualified) waltz in and take a position I am more than qualified for just because the government says they can.

Here's one for you shylock...let's say the 50% of the CAT tests your ability or the so-called "Aptitude" in a person's native language. Great! He earns a top score in it. He gets admitted to IIM. Now what? Does he now ask for business and management classes to be held in his native language? Does he want all authors to rewrite the courseb books in his native language? Let's say he "survives" through IIM. He gets an offer from a top US-based MNC and he decides to move to the US. Great! Now what. He participates in a meeting where everyone is speaking in the English (the global language). What next now eh? Would he demand that all those people learn his native langauge?

Why are you viewing the problem from the wrong angle. The solution here lies in promoting the knowledge of English in rural and backward India. Let's face the reality. In today's world, an employed man (and this does not include self-employed persons like Mr. Ambani)needs to know English in order to successfully compete. Unless some native language from a rural village in India replaces English as the global langauge.

Here's one for you shylock...let's say the 50% of the CAT tests your ability or the so-called "Aptitude" in a person's native language. Great! He earns a top score in it. He gets admitted to IIM. Now what? Does he now ask for business and management classes to be held in his native language? Does he want all authors to rewrite the courseb books in his native language? Let's say he "survives" through IIM. He gets an offer from a top US-based MNC and he decides to move to the US. Great! Now what. He participates in a meeting where everyone is speaking in the English (the global language). What next now eh? Would he demand that all those people learn his native langauge?

Why are you viewing the problem from the wrong angle. The solution here lies in promoting the knowledge of English in rural and backward India. Let's face the reality. In today's world, an employed man (and this does not include self-employed persons like Mr. Ambani)needs to know English in order to successfully compete. Unless some native language from a rural village in India replaces English as the global langauge.

iam a medical student studying in delhi and am currently protesting against reservation.
and i on behalf of all the medical students would like to put forward that we are not against the upliftment of the "needy".
not against any particular caste or category.
but we are against the system , against the fact that even after 60 years of independence a major chunk of our population is still termed "backward".
the first reservation policy was introduced in 1959, 47 years since then and 60 years since independence and our govt. could not do anything to uplift the backward classes as they very proudly call them.infact the word "backward" should have been abolished by now.
the govt. is only trying to cover its loopholes and gain votes by telling the people belonging to these castes that they are creating reservations for their children at the tertiary level.
but why dont they understand that when there are no schools for these children, that when children havent recieved the basic primary and secondary level of education how can they compete with the rest.
the govt. needs to work at the grassroot level and make education compulsory and free/subsidised for the underpriviledged children.
we all must give these children an opputunity to come forward,but not at the cost of merit.
the govt. should provide every child of this country an equal level of basic education uptill X11th standard and thereafter there should be no reservation.
the entrance exams sholud purely be on merit basis.
one more thing that i would like to put forward is regarding reservation at the post graduation level, iam a MBBS student in a batch of 100 out of which 22 are SC/ST, when for four and a half years we all sit together in the same classroom, are taught by the same proffesors, attend the same clinicals i.e. to say that when all 100 students are treated at par at the graduation level then where is the need for reservation at the postgraduation level.
in the end i would just say, all this is just increasing the cast system among the youth of india when it has been long forgotten.
and it has compelled the doctors, engineers, law students and the general public to come out on the strrets and fight for their right.
we need the help of people who support us in our fight against reservations.
please contribute towards this noble cause.
An indian who feels disowned by her own country

Someone posted "have you seen the TV channels and the print media 100% dominated by Brahmins.No space for others!!
Is it not the upper caste quota system???
Do Think...

When we point fingers on others we should remember that three fingers are pointing towards you"

Where did you get this information. Prannoy Roy is a know supporter of Communist. CNN-BBC do not belong to Brahmins. Sun TV and the entire media in TN is held by Mr.Karunanidhi and family. Hindu is pro communist. "Headlines Today" seems neutral. May be since they are neutral you can call them pro Brahmin. Grow up man. All the people here do not go by Media. Internet is not owned by Brahmin. But we go by common sense.

I agree the need for reservation. That should be only for Dalits. OBC's never need reservation. Reservation should be based on affordability. Poor is poor. Hunger is hunger. It has no religion, caste or community. Think and act. Argue with some facts. Dont make sweeping statements like Three fingers points at you" which has no meaning. Its like your pro reservation protests. No meaning.

Shylock,
You dont believe SAT, CAT, English test, aptitude test/ any test. Please tell us how to judge a particular person is fit for studying something or fit for doing some job.

If you dont have an alternative, please think again whether your expectations are right. I will score zero in my exams but i should be entitled to be the CEO of Infosys. Dont you think this is arrogance than anything.

Dear Friends,
I was in college at the time of the Mandal Commission and was rather actively involved in the protests. I am aware of what it feels like to be subject to police lathi charges and tear gassing of protestors. I have nothing againts the SC's, ST's, OBC's and any other class of people that inhibit this country, we are a democratic set up and we all have a right to express our opinions in an accepatable manner. The point is : Does anybody really care?
We have had to suffer 60 years of misrule and populist governance. Largely the fault lies with the educated class of people who will never ever go out and vote, we thus end up getting trapped. The politicians have heir own committments to the vote banks and will bend over in their attempts to appease them. Reservations are just another one of the appeasements.
I have had classmates from the most backward and deprived sections of society and never once did we feel they were inferior or that we were superior. They studied with us and having got facilities for education right from the primary school they have all stood up for themselves and have carvd their own niches independant of reservations. Reservations were not needed by them. It is high time that the government realises that the backward, the down trodden and the depriced do not need crutches but avenues, oppurtunities and facilities. Create them. Don't put ideas in the minds of the current generation and plant seeds of casteism and social division in their minds.
Perhaps the Hon'ble HRD Minister should read ask his media advisors to read the newspapers to him. The US has just announced the increase in H1B visas from a mere 65000 tp 125000 to be effective from 2007. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The americans are very smart people who wish to recruit the very best in the world even if it is at the expense of a so called friendly country.
Brothers mark my words: Various Universities abroad will also solicit admissions of Indian nationals even if they have to lower their fees initially.
We are headed towards a dual drain: a brain drain and a forex drain.
So much for creation of equal oppurtunities by the government.
Anyways, all that I learnt from my personal experience in the Mndal Commisiion protests is that HAMARE DESH MEIN NETA HAIN, NEETIYAN HAIN BAS NEEYAT NAHIN HAI. Our country has leaders, policies but no intentions.
Politics in India is not merely a politics of posters, it is more a politics f IMPOSTERS.
Remember guys the best helping hand is at the end of your own arm. It is not at 7 Race Course Road or 10 Janpath for that matter.
If you wish to make a difference then just believe in your own self. Maybe you'll discover that David felled the mighty Goliath.
In todays world you need skills to succeed and not reservations.
Will somebody please ask the ivory towers thinkers in the corridors of powers to concentrate a little more on development of skills than on granting of reservations on the basis of caste or creed.
Wake up sir and concentrate on the quality of the service being provided rather than the quantum of quotas.
Remember this is the same ruling party that has given this country the three most important issues :
1. EMERGENCY
2. MANDAL-1
3. MANDAL -II.

Lets us hope the current crop can make a dent if not a difference.
Don't give up!. We all can make a difference.
Listen to Bob Marley : "STAND UP GET UP". It helped us draw a lot of strength while in college.
KEEP IT UP.

Dear Friends,
I was in college at the time of the Mandal Commission and was rather actively involved in the protests. I am aware of what it feels like to be subject to police lathi charges and tear gassing of protestors. I have nothing againts the SC's, ST's, OBC's and any other class of people that inhibit this country, we are a democratic set up and we all have a right to express our opinions in an accepatable manner. The point is : Does anybody really care?
We have had to suffer 60 years of misrule and populist governance. Largely the fault lies with the educated class of people who will never ever go out and vote, we thus end up getting trapped. The politicians have heir own committments to the vote banks and will bend over in their attempts to appease them. Reservations are just another one of the appeasements.
I have had classmates from the most backward and deprived sections of society and never once did we feel they were inferior or that we were superior. They studied with us and having got facilities for education right from the primary school they have all stood up for themselves and have carvd their own niches independant of reservations. Reservations were not needed by them. It is high time that the government realises that the backward, the down trodden and the depriced do not need crutches but avenues, oppurtunities and facilities. Create them. Don't put ideas in the minds of the current generation and plant seeds of casteism and social division in their minds.
Perhaps the Hon'ble HRD Minister should read ask his media advisors to read the newspapers to him. The US has just announced the increase in H1B visas from a mere 65000 tp 125000 to be effective from 2007. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The americans are very smart people who wish to recruit the very best in the world even if it is at the expense of a so called friendly country.
Brothers mark my words: Various Universities abroad will also solicit admissions of Indian nationals even if they have to lower their fees initially.
We are headed towards a dual drain: a brain drain and a forex drain.
So much for creation of equal oppurtunities by the government.
Anyways, all that I learnt from my personal experience in the Mndal Commisiion protests is that HAMARE DESH MEIN NETA HAIN, NEETIYAN HAIN BAS NEEYAT NAHIN HAI. Our country has leaders, policies but no intentions.
Politics in India is not merely a politics of posters, it is more a politics f IMPOSTERS.
Remember guys the best helping hand is at the end of your own arm. It is not at 7 Race Course Road or 10 Janpath for that matter.
If you wish to make a difference then just believe in your own self. Maybe you'll discover that David felled the mighty Goliath.
In todays world you need skills to succeed and not reservations.
Will somebody please ask the ivory towers thinkers in the corridors of powers to concentrate a little more on development of skills than on granting of reservations on the basis of caste or creed.
Wake up sir and concentrate on the quality of the service being provided rather than the quantum of quotas.
Remember this is the same ruling party that has given this country the three most important issues :
1. EMERGENCY
2. MANDAL-1
3. MANDAL -II.

Lets us hope the current crop can make a dent if not a difference.
Don't give up!. We all can make a difference.
Listen to Bob Marley : "STAND UP GET UP". It helped us draw a lot of strength while in college.
KEEP IT UP.

Dear Friends,
I was in college at the time of the Mandal Commission and was rather actively involved in the protests. I am aware of what it feels like to be subject to police lathi charges and tear gassing of protestors. I have nothing againts the SC's, ST's, OBC's and any other class of people that inhibit this country, we are a democratic set up and we all have a right to express our opinions in an accepatable manner. The point is : Does anybody really care?
We have had to suffer 60 years of misrule and populist governance. Largely the fault lies with the educated class of people who will never ever go out and vote, we thus end up getting trapped. The politicians have heir own committments to the vote banks and will bend over in their attempts to appease them. Reservations are just another one of the appeasements.
I have had classmates from the most backward and deprived sections of society and never once did we feel they were inferior or that we were superior. They studied with us and having got facilities for education right from the primary school they have all stood up for themselves and have carvd their own niches independant of reservations. Reservations were not needed by them. It is high time that the government realises that the backward, the down trodden and the depriced do not need crutches but avenues, oppurtunities and facilities. Create them. Don't put ideas in the minds of the current generation and plant seeds of casteism and social division in their minds.
Perhaps the Hon'ble HRD Minister should read ask his media advisors to read the newspapers to him. The US has just announced the increase in H1B visas from a mere 65000 tp 125000 to be effective from 2007. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The americans are very smart people who wish to recruit the very best in the world even if it is at the expense of a so called friendly country.
Brothers mark my words: Various Universities abroad will also solicit admissions of Indian nationals even if they have to lower their fees initially.
We are headed towards a dual drain: a brain drain and a forex drain.
So much for creation of equal oppurtunities by the government.
Anyways, all that I learnt from my personal experience in the Mndal Commisiion protests is that HAMARE DESH MEIN NETA HAIN, NEETIYAN HAIN BAS NEEYAT NAHIN HAI. Our country has leaders, policies but no intentions.
Politics in India is not merely a politics of posters, it is more a politics f IMPOSTERS.
Remember guys the best helping hand is at the end of your own arm. It is not at 7 Race Course Road or 10 Janpath for that matter.
If you wish to make a difference then just believe in your own self. Maybe you'll discover that David felled the mighty Goliath.
In todays world you need skills to succeed and not reservations.
Will somebody please ask the ivory towers thinkers in the corridors of powers to concentrate a little more on development of skills than on granting of reservations on the basis of caste or creed.
Wake up sir and concentrate on the quality of the service being provided rather than the quantum of quotas.
Remember this is the same ruling party that has given this country the three most important issues :
1. EMERGENCY
2. MANDAL-1
3. MANDAL -II.

Lets us hope the current crop can make a dent if not a difference.
Don't give up!. We all can make a difference.
Listen to Bob Marley : "STAND UP GET UP". It helped us draw a lot of strength while in college.
KEEP IT UP.

Dear Friends,
I was in college at the time of the Mandal Commission and was rather actively involved in the protests. I am aware of what it feels like to be subject to police lathi charges and tear gassing of protestors. I have nothing againts the SC's, ST's, OBC's and any other class of people that inhibit this country, we are a democratic set up and we all have a right to express our opinions in an accepatable manner. The point is : Does anybody really care?
We have had to suffer 60 years of misrule and populist governance. Largely the fault lies with the educated class of people who will never ever go out and vote, we thus end up getting trapped. The politicians have heir own committments to the vote banks and will bend over in their attempts to appease them. Reservations are just another one of the appeasements.
I have had classmates from the most backward and deprived sections of society and never once did we feel they were inferior or that we were superior. They studied with us and having got facilities for education right from the primary school they have all stood up for themselves and have carvd their own niches independant of reservations. Reservations were not needed by them. It is high time that the government realises that the backward, the down trodden and the depriced do not need crutches but avenues, oppurtunities and facilities. Create them. Don't put ideas in the minds of the current generation and plant seeds of casteism and social division in their minds.
Perhaps the Hon'ble HRD Minister should read ask his media advisors to read the newspapers to him. The US has just announced the increase in H1B visas from a mere 65000 tp 125000 to be effective from 2007. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The americans are very smart people who wish to recruit the very best in the world even if it is at the expense of a so called friendly country.
Brothers mark my words: Various Universities abroad will also solicit admissions of Indian nationals even if they have to lower their fees initially.
We are headed towards a dual drain: a brain drain and a forex drain.
So much for creation of equal oppurtunities by the government.
Anyways, all that I learnt from my personal experience in the Mndal Commisiion protests is that HAMARE DESH MEIN NETA HAIN, NEETIYAN HAIN BAS NEEYAT NAHIN HAI. Our country has leaders, policies but no intentions.
Politics in India is not merely a politics of posters, it is more a politics f IMPOSTERS.
Remember guys the best helping hand is at the end of your own arm. It is not at 7 Race Course Road or 10 Janpath for that matter.
If you wish to make a difference then just believe in your own self. Maybe you'll discover that David felled the mighty Goliath.
In todays world you need skills to succeed and not reservations.
Will somebody please ask the ivory towers thinkers in the corridors of powers to concentrate a little more on development of skills than on granting of reservations on the basis of caste or creed.
Wake up sir and concentrate on the quality of the service being provided rather than the quantum of quotas.
Remember this is the same ruling party that has given this country the three most important issues :
1. EMERGENCY
2. MANDAL-1
3. MANDAL -II.

Lets us hope the current crop can make a dent if not a difference.
Don't give up!. We all can make a difference.
Listen to Bob Marley : "STAND UP GET UP". It helped us draw a lot of strength while in college.
KEEP IT UP.

Dear Friends,
I was in college at the time of the Mandal Commission and was rather actively involved in the protests. I am aware of what it feels like to be subject to police lathi charges and tear gassing of protestors. I have nothing againts the SC's, ST's, OBC's and any other class of people that inhibit this country, we are a democratic set up and we all have a right to express our opinions in an accepatable manner. The point is : Does anybody really care?
We have had to suffer 60 years of misrule and populist governance. Largely the fault lies with the educated class of people who will never ever go out and vote, we thus end up getting trapped. The politicians have heir own committments to the vote banks and will bend over in their attempts to appease them. Reservations are just another one of the appeasements.
I have had classmates from the most backward and deprived sections of society and never once did we feel they were inferior or that we were superior. They studied with us and having got facilities for education right from the primary school they have all stood up for themselves and have carvd their own niches independant of reservations. Reservations were not needed by them. It is high time that the government realises that the backward, the down trodden and the depriced do not need crutches but avenues, oppurtunities and facilities. Create them. Don't put ideas in the minds of the current generation and plant seeds of casteism and social division in their minds.
Perhaps the Hon'ble HRD Minister should read ask his media advisors to read the newspapers to him. The US has just announced the increase in H1B visas from a mere 65000 tp 125000 to be effective from 2007. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The americans are very smart people who wish to recruit the very best in the world even if it is at the expense of a so called friendly country.
Brothers mark my words: Various Universities abroad will also solicit admissions of Indian nationals even if they have to lower their fees initially.
We are headed towards a dual drain: a brain drain and a forex drain.
So much for creation of equal oppurtunities by the government.
Anyways, all that I learnt from my personal experience in the Mndal Commisiion protests is that HAMARE DESH MEIN NETA HAIN, NEETIYAN HAIN BAS NEEYAT NAHIN HAI. Our country has leaders, policies but no intentions.
Politics in India is not merely a politics of posters, it is more a politics f IMPOSTERS.
Remember guys the best helping hand is at the end of your own arm. It is not at 7 Race Course Road or 10 Janpath for that matter.
If you wish to make a difference then just believe in your own self. Maybe you'll discover that David felled the mighty Goliath.
In todays world you need skills to succeed and not reservations.
Will somebody please ask the ivory towers thinkers in the corridors of powers to concentrate a little more on development of skills than on granting of reservations on the basis of caste or creed.
Wake up sir and concentrate on the quality of the service being provided rather than the quantum of quotas.
Remember this is the same ruling party that has given this country the three most important issues :
1. EMERGENCY
2. MANDAL-1
3. MANDAL -II.

Lets us hope the current crop can make a dent if not a difference.
Don't give up!. We all can make a difference.
Listen to Bob Marley : "STAND UP GET UP". It helped us draw a lot of strength while in college.
KEEP IT UP.

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