New Delhi Times - Gaurav Bhatnagar reporting from New Delhi, India

Sounds Really Scary! Very Scary!

There should be some sort of affirmative action laws in India. If US is going to send projects down to India and if there is no affirmative action laws in the country, then the companies that send in work to India will be breaking the US laws. It is quite unfortunate that most of the educated Indians just see from a narrow view of what is good for themselves and their company than what is good for the society. You should note that the govt. is consulting heavily with the likes of Narayana Murthy etc. If it is so bad for the industry as you have projected out, I am sure Narayana Murthy would have spoken about it to the press.

If a sane American sees affirmative action laws in India, he/she would prefer India to China as the laws in India will be more tune to the laws in US. If the person happens to be a greedy businessman, he will choose China.

It is not fair to compare affirmative action with caste based reservations. I do not know enough about US laws but Wikipedia states: "The Order requires that contractors take affirmative action to ensure that "protected class, underutilized applicants" are employed when available, and that employees are treated without negative discriminatory regard to their protected-class status."

Further quota based employment is enforced only on organizations accepting federal grants - "The order specifically requires certain organizations accepting federal funds to take affirmative action to increase employment of members of preferred racial or ethnic groups and women."

Narayan Murthy has not spoken against or for reservation in private sector yet. It will be interesting to hear his reasoning if he does defend this move. Perhaps there is a silver lining in this. Its just that I can't see it yet!

scary very very scary. like gaurav said affirmative action in US is not like the quota based reservation in India. No political party will oppose it in the fear of losing the votes. Looks like the government might be able to pass the bill.

Top this if you can http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1466485.cms
"Kya hoega ye country ka".

Well, if we all shun these tactics, selfish as much as they seem, what are other ways to make sure that the underprivileged are given a chance. Reservation, or affirmative action, has to exist at some level to ensure that those who do not have the means are uplifted. Maybe reservation on the basis of financial status, one might argue, but then those few undeserving cases which frustrate us in college or work, will still crop up – thanks to corruption.
For a private enterprise, profit is the only aim, which explains optimizing one's workforce to achieve greater revenue. But the government, on the other hand, has a social responsibility. Few enterprises can boast of a social impact -- most of them are large ones, who finally got time and money to help. Taking in a few of the underprivileged, not as a favour but a responsibility, is what small companies can do to decrease the social (read financial) disparity. And yes, a rising economy, when it fills our pockets instantaneously, and promises a much delayed and indirect impact on the lower classes, isn’t going to help too.

I agree with sach1tb to a greater extent. The private sector should have social responsibilities. I see that many pro liberalization guys scream about govt. money going down the drains on social upliftment programs (Gaurav's article on Rural employment guarantee act is an example) but what are they doing when govt. gives out lands to big private companies at throw away prices. They don't mind if govt. spends people's money to build infrastructure to suit private companies. Isn't it hypocrisy? I was in Chennai a month ago and I went to meet my friend on the beach side. There were many IT companies there and the road was bad. While talking to my friend, I came to know that the road was ok and when tsunami came, it messed up the road a bit. But the high number of employee buses (belonging to all these IT companies) plying on that road made the road totally unusable. In this case, even though Tsunami messed up with the road a bit, it is the overuse by IT companies that was responsible for the total destruction. Why can't these IT companies lay a concrete road over there? Why do they want govt. to use the tax payers money to build road. All those neo liberalization people who scream at govt. for using taxpayers money on social reforms also scream that the govt. doesn't use taxpayers money to build roads which are over used by private IT companies for their benefit. Come on, isn't it hypocrisy. I am also a businessman but a businessman who knows about social responsibilities.

Gaurav, I do agree that affirmative action is applied for govt. contracts. However I want to point out that

1) many big companies have atleast one fedaral projects either directly or through outsourcing.

2) even in the absence of fedaral projects, the companies have enough social responsibility to maintain the diversity (based on the city/town where it is located). You will not see a company having only white employees in a predominantly black town. Most of the Americans have understood the grave mistake done by their previous generations and ensure that the suffered people are treated fairly. But in the case of Indians, a big chunk of our generation don't realize the grave mistakes done by previous generations for several thousand years or they tend to ignore it rather than repent about it. Hence, there is no fairness in the private sector. take any big company. I can challenge that they don't represent the diversity of the city/town they are located in. Also we should remember that the racism in India is several orders of magnitude bigger than what existed in US. BTW, discrimination on the basis of caste is no different from the discrimination based on color.

Regarding your article on Rural Employment Guarantee Act, I want to say the following. Suppose if you ignore the rural sector (which consitutes 70% of the Indian population) and pursue with liberalization policies that suits only Urban elite and middle class (who form only 20% of the whole population), one of the following two can happen and both are bad for Indian economy.

1) Not so bad scenario: The rural people will start migrating to Urban areas thereby causing imbalance. This will adversely affect the urban centers and send the economy spiralling downward. We will also lose the self reliance of food (the only reason why India is still a power in spite of its population). These two will totally mess up Indian economy.

2) Scary scenario: If 80% of the people are ignored and only 20% are getting all the benefits, soon the 80% will run out of patience after being forced to a corner. Remember the reason for Naxal movement. Even though it has become a terrorist movement, it started only because the landlords were squeezing out poor. If the 80% of the people who are cornered by the economic liberalization take up arms, they can wipe out the remaining 20% (and the Indian Economy) in matter of hours.

So any advance should be all inclusive. If we don't take steps to take everyone around in our economic liberalization program, the disaster is just waiting round the corner. Remember Katrina? We will have 1000 x Katrina.

The world hasn't advanced to this level by economics (specifically capitalism) alone. The advancement came due to advances in science. The advances in science were achieved through the principle of sharing. Let us, for example, assume that capitalism was the guiding principle for scientists from Newtonian years. They would have sold their findings to one country which had the ability/money to buy Newtons and Einsteins. All the other countries will be at the mercy of this single country or they would have gone the ethiopia ways. You and me wouldn't have got whatever we have got till now and India, with such a huge population, would have died long back with famine and disease. I wish our Libertarians and pro liberalization techies and management gurus realize this and support a liberalization program that is all inclusive and where sharing is the way of life (go open source).

I agree with whoever says we need to take the whole country along as and when we develop. But let's not stop the progress in the process. The recent reservation attempts of the govt are definitely going to ensure that.

I'm against reservations in their present form. They do not achieve the desired goal- a child of an IAS officer (who became an IAS officer using a quota in the first place) does not need the quota. Our quotas do not reach those who really need it. Also, someone who got his/her education through a quota does not deserve a quota when they need a job.

I suggest the following to make the quota system more effective and fair (for everyone):

1) A person should be allowed to use either an aducation quota or an employment quota.

2) A person whose parents have either used quotas (to gain equal opportunities as those who were endowed with more than our SCs/STs/OBCs) or have sufficient social and economic affluence to provide for them should be restricted from using a quota.

3) Merit based Scholarships/ Freeships for the underpriviliged in the elite educational institutions- but no reservations. (Most of the underpriviliged people we are concerned about live in rural india and do not even know about the IITs and IIMs- these, and other, top institutions should be left for the deserving)

4) No quotas in the private sector. You have to allow the private sector to do its own thing- most, if not all, progress will come from private enterprise.

These quotas have been in existence for a very long time now and have not had the desired effect. Making the existing quotas reach those who really need them would be more effective than creating more for those who dont. The ultimate aim being to do away with them (the quotas) altogether.

-Manuj Garg

I don't understand that how a quota can be there. India has become a matter of joke abroad because of these illogical silly things happening there. The stupidity of politicians doesn't have any end.
People who support quota what reason is there. If I have to employ somebody in my company then I won't like to be bothered what caste or religion he can belong to. If he/she can do the job that's all what I want. When these people ask for quota are they "Napunsaks" who don't find themselves capable of competing in the market. It's pretty shameful. Work hard and get what you deserve. Stop begging.

this is ridiculous of our governmet to introduce such reservations in private sector. where are we going with such reservations? we are supposed to be a developing country. is this the kind of development we are aiming at? so many undeserving people will be burdened on the private companies making it similar to the govt offices. this is indian politics at its best it seems.

Discouraging to say the least. The prime minister with all the knowledge of economics has shown such lack of wisdom. Or may be he is too less a personality to be given India's most high profile office. Petty votebank politics making a good segment of the country alien to thier own land.

The move encourages literates to flee this country and live in the better world( US and alike nations). Even these nations do not discriminate between nationality for giving jobs but our nation discriminates its own citizens. Anyone like me will not like to do any good to this country by giving 30% of salaries and not securing any future for the next generation. Instead we should better go to the nations where they take 30% tax but in return give us a neutral ground to fight.

This nation discriminates in the name of caste, creed colour and religion. The democracy is showing up as demonocracy. Advice is flee the country ASAP.

I agree with the suggestions by Manoj Garg. I strongly disagree to the suggestion of quotas in provate sector. I think it only hampers the growth of India.

I am in complete agreement with having quotas for backward castes. But i am just wondering why it is only limited to educational institutions or the private sector. It should spread to cricket, films, and even politics for that matter. A backward caste candidate while standing for elections should be provided with benefits such as a 50 percent increase to the number of votes he has obtained. This is for the very simple reason that he hails from a backward caste and the amount of canvassing he has done, how popular he is, what bribes he has given and so on holds no merit. And as people mention, it is our moral duty to bring such economic uniformity in our country. So let us start with reservation quotas in politics and see whether our dear politicians accept it. It can be implemented as a pilot project and if it works, it certainly can be moved to other areas.

If the Hindu Caste System would not exist in the first place there wouldnt be a single conversion in this country. Several countries whould have respect for Hinduism.

Now other countries make fun of this caste system and reservations.

Our aim should be to destroy this caste system itself.

Sadly we forget the caste system which has devastated India for several years.

The Quota will go once the system is scrapped from Hiduism. The Manusmriti destroyed hinduism itself.

Look at states like Kerala, Bihar, Maharashtra. So many people accepted Christianity, Buddhism and Islam due to opression caused by the caste system.

Tata gropus welcomes reservation in private sector
"Tata group certainly understands the social
responsibility that all Industry should carry to bring social justice
to SC/ST and other minority or underprivileged sections of our
community. We would happily support your initiative."

I am in favour of reservation for SCs/STs in the private sector. There are hardly any jobs available in the government sector in this era of privatisation.

If socially and economically backward sections of society have to be carried along in the country's march for prosperity and general upliftment, they must be given due representation in the private sector, which is presently driving the engine of growth.

This is necessary because the individuals and the institutions controlling the economy today have come up only at the expense of these deprived sections of the society.

In old times, there were luhars (blacksmiths) who would make iron tools used for domestic works, for cultivation in the fields and for many other purposes. Then, there were chamaars (cobblers) who would repair and make sandals and shoes. There were scores of such castes/communities who formed a vital part of the rural economy. They passed on their skills from one generation to another.

Where are they now? You hardly see them. Today, the Tatas are luhars and the Batas are chamaars. What I mean to say is the new economic system has further deprived the traditionally-backward sections of the society - they have been deprived of their rights to earn their livelihood by using their traditional skills.

Having lost their vocations, these people are now being asked whether they have merits and efficiency to work in automobile sector or in a shoe factory! As if those born in privileged castes were born with merits!

How is it that about three-fourths of the secretaries in the government of India are brahmins or some other upper caste? The same goes for the CMDs and other high posts. These are the people who decide who has merit and who does not. How do you expect them to share power with dalits and adivasis? If the people who recruit are from privileged castes, there is no hope for the deprived ones. That is why privileged castes have managed to hold power since Independence despite laws providing reservation to weaker sections.

Reservation in the private sector must be done through legislation, given our experience of reservation in government jobs. Hundreds of posts are left vacant.

Privileged castes and communities have managed to usurp the share reserved for SCs/STs. We are investigating a case about an MP who is not a dalit but managed to get elected from a SC seat. Thousands of IAS/IPS officers have got bogus caste certificates to usurp what was meant for SCs/STs.

If such things are happening despite the presence of laws ensuring reservation in government services, what makes you think that the private sector will agree to accommodate the oppressed sections of the society in the absence of any laws?

First our politicians made reservation in public sector and what was the result ? So many skilled and capable people remained jobless and those who are unskilled they got the job and enjoying all the luxuries of their life.
Now the government is trying to give reservation in private sector also. I think it will bring dawn the morale of those indian hard working people who worked for india to achieve its supermacy.It is not the public sector it is the private sector , the very vibrant private sector, who has given India a good image in the global market. Now India is known as the very fast growing country not the country of SADHU, SANT & SAPERAS anly.
So our private sector need only skilled people so that our economy will grow faster.
I think the reservation can be given in onle educational institute. And it should be based on economic need not based on caste.Because there are so many backward caste people who are very rich and so many upper caste people who are very poor. So our main aim is to develop the condition of poor people not the backward caste people. So reservation is given in educational institute so that after completing their study they also become skilled. and they can compete with anyone.
In this way we can make poor people skilled and our private sector will also be having skilled people.

Great discussion.

My viewpoint: Just like all sane people, reservation based on economic need.

I mean, why is it so difficult to understand that caste has nothing to do with merit.
I work for IT so will take that as an example.
Any tech job requires the candidate to be a graduate. Recruitment process is usually tests (basic maths/english) and interview.
Now, having graduated (with/without reservation) how does caste matter?? As long as a candidate passes these tests, he's in.
Making reservations means the comapany lowering it's benchmark, which effects its projected productity, quality, etc..
This is completely illogical. A person sitting next to me, completely idiot, enjoying his day, while I complete his workload, and probably getting promoted since the quota at the next level was not fulfilled.... this is insane.
Please find me a SC/ST/OBS girl for marriage. Atleast my kids would have a future in India being treated as backward classes (read elite's)... correct me if this ruling has changed, in which case, my only hope would be lost.

Clearly, as someone has said... don't use reservations to evade competition. Would only spoil the wonderful image which this country's resource pool has created so far.